Thorin's Round 2 arguments - "Gods and robots"

The state of CS 1.6 is that it's stale, it's turgid, it's fake, it's a sham and perhaps worst of all it's entirely marginalized everything that was Counter-Strike that made Counter-Strike great in a competitive sense. There's enough glitz, money and relative fame to go around for everyone at the top, the spotlight is wider and brighter than it's ever been before and yet at the core of what competitive Counter-Strike is and inside all of it's matches it's lacking, a lie and at best a hype-expectations-anti-climax cycle. I can begin to explain why if I explain the death of the CS gods.

The past
In the earlier days of competitive Counter-Strike there were gods, players whose styles of play thrilled and excited even their team-mates. Seemingly unfettered by any limitation these players were capable of anything and in those special moments where they shined they sometimes did do practically anything to win a round or a match or a moment. These weren't just players viewed as gods because they were the first to reach the summit of the mountain, the top of the scene, they had a special glow about them for all to see. When they played their games had such unique style to them even the casual observers could have picked them out from a demo with the names edited out. From their movement to their aim styles there was a unique quality to the gods, a direct link to what it means to be the best in Counter-Strike they had all tapped into in a different way, to bring through different qualities of into competitive play.

The gods were players who didn't rise through the ranks to reach the top, they didn't have to learn how to be gods they were that way almost immediately and their ascensions were obvious and understood by all. These were players who didn't need a few tournaments under their belt to get accustomed to playing in the biggest LAN tournament or the right team environment to settle their nerves, they smashed down the competitive door and blazed through the tournament circuit from day 1. The difference between the gods in a major LAN tournament and even the closest players to them was enormous, the best teams would regularly smash teams even as deep in the tournament as the semi-finals by almost the maximum score. This was the extent of the gods' playground, the freedom the game allowed them and of which they took full advantage. This was also the period in which we all cried out for more tournament, more money and more development. We wanted new maps to replace the bad ones and salaries for all the top teams so they could attend every event and we could see them all face each other in every permutation. As far as that latter point goes we wanted more events, don't make us wait 6-8 months to see Ksharp and HeatoN clash when we could have them playing every month or two. Addicted to cults of immense personality, in an in-game sense, the entire community salivated over the prospect of development in any area of competitive Counter-Strike.

The present
The gods are dead, buried and largely forgotten. Those who still reminisce over them or bring them into conversations sound like old men trying to bring Rocky Marciano into a boxing argument or Oscar Robertson into a basketball debate. If the gods still play then they do not play Counter-Strike and they do not play on our competitive stage, if they are still followed or thought of then it is with a nostalgic eye and entirely within the realm of the imagination, not the cold and clinical eye of the present moment of a sport unfolding. In place of the gods have come the robots. Where the gods soared upon a mixture of natural talent and inventiveness within a seeming limitless sky not the robots dominate the confined and encroached realm of competitive Counter-Strike. Their success comes through 5,000 hours of repetitive practice of every element of Counter-Strike, watching the best their neural networks pick apart the very specific qualities and shooting styles and movement paths which need to be applied to achieve success at the highest level now. In the past there was Ksharp whose famous train POV demo shocked the world with the extent and the promise of what noscoping was capable of, the degree to which what had previously been a corner holding range weapon could dominate the game in the hands of a god. In the modern era his place is occupied by fRoD or cogu, both the very limit of AWP skill and ability and yet both lacking the glow, that pure quality. Both are enjoyable to watch, both can hit the extreme range of shots possible but thanks to the era and the environment of 1.6 both are just very good players, no deifying required here.

In the past there were players like HeatoN, Potti and steel. HeatoN's spray control up until the end of the 1.3 era was so good it was not only literally at the highest level in the entire world but capable of dominating on practically any distance in certain competitive situations. His 1v5 against 4kings was less a factor of everything happening eventually and more a case of his opponents showing a slim chance of victory to him and one of the gods exerting all of his talent into that moment and taking over the game. While steel began competitively a little later than most of the other gods his style is an excellent example of the unique styles of play capable of achieving success in the era of the gods. steel's pure and disciplined bursting style can be found nowhere else in CS in that era or this, his entire game had been built around mastering and executing the 2 and 3 bullet burst at medium and long ranges and it showed as he could dominate games and take out opponents in a manner few could prepare for without long term exposure to it. His now infamous aztec pub demo is a simple reference point for people who have underestimated the kind of extreme discipline that shooting style requires but which rewards. Potti's godlike quality was versatility, whatever needed to be done to win a round or a match, however difficult it may be, he could do it. He could spray as well as the HeatoNs of the world or burst as well as the steel's. Holding his playstyle to such a consistently high level Potti's game awaited any mistake from his opponents so it could flourish and exstinguish them.

Who replaces these gods? Let's say Neo, f0rest and zet for argument's sake. Neo has the allround dominating qualities of a Potti, the ability to take over a game from any aspect that is lacking in the opponent and the brazen self-confidence to do so. f0rest has the amazing aiming abilities of a steel and over any range with burst or spray. zet is perhaps the most obvious replacement for a HeatoN with his uncanny ability to control spray in doing so dominate that aspect of the game. All of these players once again are very fine players, they are enjoyable to observe and some of them perhaps in the right environment as their predecessors would be considered or on the way to godhood. The point isn't to denigrate any of the players I've listed here it's to show that those who've gone can't always be replaced, shouldn't have to be and thanks to the way CS has changed perhaps can't be.

Conclusions
To match every step of the road of development in competitive Counter-Strike, whether itbe from more money and events to more top players and teams, there have been huge compromises in exchange. This is not just a fact of business or life as some may dismiss it as, it's a product of people not understanding what makes something special and so trampling over those elements. Speed of movement is limited, instead of a spectrum of paces to move at now there is the slowness of walking or the slightly less slowness of 'running'. Jumping is something done to get off a ladder or over a gap half a second before someone can shoot you. No longer is it a legitimate area of expression for talent or another factor in competition. Counter-Strike is an entirely horizontal game now when it comes to movement. Spraying was kneecapped and now is a mixture of applied talent and luck. There were always certain elements of the flow of full auto spray which were not under the players control but from 1.5 onwards there are times in the flow when suddenly it becomes uncontrollable and even the best players in the world must fight to not blow the fight they find themselves in. There were no good new maps, some marginal ones like mill were added and after playing it 1,000 times it became accepted as an ok map. All the maps have been played so much everyone knows every basic strat, how long it takes to get from here to there at any 'speed' and what someone is likely to do when here as opposed to there. Creativity can never be exstinguished entirely but it rarely truly required in the era of the robots, they'd played every situation a million times, they've watched every situation a million times and now it's just a case of pressing the go button and seeing which robot wins this time based on the various factors behind each element of the competitive game. We've turned a skill game like poker into 3D top trumps.

The point of labelling certain players gods and others robots is not to demean specific players it is to show the kinds of players we've lost, forced out of CS or denied from being able to succeed anymore. Certain styles or players are no longer able to compete in the modern CS world, they have their own idiosyncracies which no longer fit into the low sens crouched spraying competition that CS has become. Even if they applied themselves to the same amount of practice as the robots their time has been and gone thanks to the changes implemented. Fictionalizing players as gods is intended as a metaphor for the kind of brilliance we no longer have a place for in CS thanks to the limitations of the game and the machine we've created for churning out top players we then smash against each other until they then retire and we replace them with the next models. Even the middle periods of competitive CS where most of these changes were being implemented all the great teams were still anchored by the gods, by the XeqtRs or vesslans or Rambos of this world.

If you want a perfect example of how a god adapts to compete with robots look at the career of Rambo, while both he and Ksharp were up there on a higher plane (along with a few peers) above essentially everyone else in the earlier times of CS, an enormous skill and ability gap between them and even the people trying to compete with them. Where that was the case then in later days you take a player like Ksharp and where he's no longer motivated to practice like a fiend with the robots and his brilliance is shutoff in certain respects and in others confined to the limited prison of 1.6 suddenly he's just another good player, his moments of brilliance are now 100x less prevalent. Rambo on the other hands, a player who was at the exact same point diverges, he never loses a step in competitive CS or falls below the new stars and that's because he applies the same level of dedication as the robots. He trains every day the same kinds of hours, he is pugging or pubbing or scrimming constantly and when we put him within the frame of a Ksharp we see that he too is limited of his amazing potential in so many areas or situations of competitive play but he achieves success still by mimicking the robots, he has adapted to the modern age as practically no one else from that period of CS has. They're all marginalized, retired or struggling.

The reason all of this is an enormous negative for competitive CS is that none of these limitations or changes were needed. All it takes is a few programmers and some minor funding and the competitive aspect of CS (as in everything not taking place in a pub/csdm) could be as it was in terms of potential. Movement could be there, aiming and all the weapon differences restored. In such a world gods and robots would all compete together, we'd get to see which of the robots are just copying that style and which possess the same amazing raw talents and limitless potential that the gods did. We'd get to see any of the gods who chose to play compete still and all the big matches would possess those players with the glow, the special quality, that irresitable and pure esscence which draws the competitive world to them. The era of innovators who created all the strats and concepts you see now (think vesslan, hyb and moto) is fallen and made worthless in the face of the imitators, the players whose natural skill is copying the right qualities, fitting into the narrow moulds we allow success to flow into in 1.6.

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Mutechno's response to Round 1 and Round 2 arguments made by Thorin
Note that Mutechno was allowed to go last this round to respond to both Round 1 and Round 2 arguments made by Thorin

According to Thorin, CS matches today are "lacking". In Round 1, I focused more on the US CS 1.6, but in Round 2 Im going to focus more on the state of CS 1.6 as a whole. So Thorin states in his argument that CS matches are lacking. If watching the NGL matches are "lacking" to you, then I don't know what to be entertained is. A list of the current teams currently competing in NGL.

• aTTax (WSVG 06 winner)
• SK Gaming (2nd @ WSVG 07)
• fnatic (CPL 06 winner)
• MYM (2nd @ CPL 06)
• NoA (2nd @ ESWC 07, 2nd @ WCG 07)
• mousesports (#1/#2 ranked in Germany)
• roccat (WSVG 07 winner)
• yourname (Danish powerhouse)
• GGaming Gaming (Danish powerhouse)
• CMAX (2nd @ ICC 07)

Please tell me head to head action between those teams are not entertaining to watch. And this is just online, don't get me started about on LAN!! A list of some top LANs off the top of my head:

• ESWC 07
• WCG 07
• SHGopen 07
• ICC 07
• eSTARS 07
• GameGune 07
• EM 07

Throin claims that matches in CS 1.6 are "lacking", please. 20,000 spectators during PGS vs. NoA says it all. During many occasions I have seen "GROUP PLAY" matches reach the 5-7k mark in viewers, and thats just Group Play. If Group Play reaches 5-7... I can't imagine the finals.

Here’s another direct direct quote from Thorin…

"There's enough glitz, money and relative fame to go around for everyone at the top, the spotlight is wider and brighter than it's ever been before and yet at the core of what competitive Counter-Strike is and inside all of it's matches it's lacking, a lie and at best a hype-expectations-anti-climax cycle"

So now, he says he isn't excited during a CS match and theres no climax, anyone who says this obviously hasn't seen the PGS vs. NoA match, I'll leave it at that.

Replying to "the past"... The "gods" argument is just ridiculous. A good player is a good player. Nobody is a "god", I wouldn't even call that special person a “god”. I'd call him the "first", the first to do this, the first to clutch that, the first to really revolutionize the game and completely change it forever. In the past, we had Ksharp and HeatoN, and now we have NEo and f0rest. Thats how it works, even in sports, their time is over, and a new generation arises. When was the last time you saw someone as explosive as NEo? When was the last time you saw such amazing works of AK/M4? When was the last time you saw an Asian team going around 1shot-ing everyone? Times change, Peyton Manning won't throw forever. Kobe won't score forever. A-Rod won't hit forever, as the players get older, a new generation arises. I can't change that, and we can't change that, thats just the way it is, you don't question it, you just go with it. I don't understand why Thorin talks about the "gods" and HeatoN, Potti, and steel. Thats how the world goes, you have your time, and then your time is up, a new age arises. Did you really think they were gonna be playing 10 years from now?

Such as in basketball…

• 80's = Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Julius Erving, and Issiah Thomas
• 90's = Michael Jordan, Hakeem O., David Robinson
• 2000's = Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Parker, Wade, and Detroit

Changes happen, you can't stop change. Like humans, we have changed alot from our days as hunter-gatherers into the neolithic era (get it? NEOlithic?). We evolved, and like this game, it is also evolving. As a matter of fact, the 2007 should be referred to as the "Revolutionary Renaissance" of CS 1.6. Such as baseball and their era's are “The Dead Ball Era" and "The Steroids Era”. And like CS 1.6 we have the Post CGS Era, the Pre CGS Era, the Post AWP Delay era, and the Post Anti-Cheat Cilent era (If Im not mistaken, ACC have only been a around for a short period of time).

So Thorin, what are you going to say about that? Are you going to say that players during the PRE-ACC era have a cloud of their heads? And that they might of cheated? Are they tainted with the possibilities of cheating? You can't say that. And here are some topics I want to throw out there from my previous submission which won me the spot.

1. 3D/COL to CSS and CGS
People keep thinking that 3D and COL was all American's had. To be honest with you, 3D and COL was on their way out when they switched as seen when 3D lost to Pandemic in CEVO & COL lost to zEx in CEVO. Kind of like the Lakers after they won three straight titles in 2000-2002 and then fell apart. COL/3D were on their way out. CGS has made no impact whatsoever besides the fact that a mere 6 teams switched. According to Steam Stats…

• Counter-Strike 306,076 143,178 9.193 billion
• Counter-Strike: Source 76,634 50,850 2.387 billion

Yeah... thats excluding players in Asia and the Middle Eastern or even Southern America that use Non-Steam. I mean, it's not even close.

2. No more events?
Well 2007 had the 5 major events it has every year,

• WSVG 07
• WCG 07
• CPL 07
• WEG (eStars)
• ESWC 07

Along with that, we can add GameGune, SHGopen, Intel, and the Extreme Masters. So if CS is dying now, then it was dying 4 years ago. And CS was not dying 4 years ago. The prize money has been the same for the most part. ESWC and WCG gave out $40,000-$55,000 first prize money. And eStars gave out $25,000 to the first place winner and that tournament involved only 4 teams. The prize money has been there, the sponsors have been there, and the top players have been there such as neo, f0rest, element, REAL, face, walle, SpawN, dsn, evolution, and moon. I can go on for days.

• CPL is CS 1.6 confirmed until 2010.
• ESWC is CS 1.6 confirmed for 2008.
• WCG is CS 1.6 confirmed for 2008.
• WEG is CS 1.6 confirmed for 2008.
• KODE5 and the Extreme masters are all already holding qualifiers for CS 1.6 events in 2008.

3. The repetition of the same old, the same old, 2-3 split, the same old, 2-3 inner, the same old, b rush, and the same old, "get the shutter flash".
Of course, CS is a business, every is a business no doubt. You try and make some money, CS doesn't require much to run, so the companies don't get anything out of it, because gamers don't have to have BIG computers to run CS. They want us to play Source, so we upgrade, which means they benefit. Supply and demand baby.

Thing is, we all have high end systems, and most players profile on here (ESEA profiles), as I read their rig, they definitely have the power needed to play, but they chose not to. And the repetition part, baseball has been around for 100 years, basketball has been around since the early 1900's. No one has complained, rules have been added, and changes are made within the game but the game has been the same. CS 1.6 is fine the way it is, and like other sports, changes and rules are tweaked within the game (Steam Updates) which is a good thing because it improves the game. However, new maps will need to be instituted, Dust2, nuke, train, and inferno won't last another 5 years, I'm telling you. Every strat has been ran, every CT set up has been played, and every boost/gay spot/little tricks(squeaky)/spam spot has been done. Thus, the institution of new maps (from CEVO) tuscan, russka, and forge. Although these maps aren't really new maps (these maps are remakes of mill and cbble, with the exception of russka being completely new). New maps need to be made and used. We'll be uneasy and hesitatingly at first, but we must eventually switch and accept to play the new maps, it needs to be done. If we want CS 1.6 to survive, that needs to happen.

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Please vote for who you think the winner of Round 2 was via the poll on the right! Look for Round 3 of Master Debater soon.

The thoughts and opinions expressed in Master Debater do not represent the E-Sports Entertainment Association.